Tuesday, May 21, 2013

Ownership, and the superbowl

Cry me a river. Stevie Ross told us we *have* to do a public-private partnership to get the superbowl in the future - or we'll be shut out....

I was giving this some thought again today, and I have to admit that a real and true partnership might not be a bad idea.  Though I would still prefer he pay for it himself. Or at least pay back the loans he has. 

If there were some agreement, there has to be some give (and less take) from the Dolphins.  How about a bond that will be repaid by the Dolphins?  And in exchange, some portion of the stadium would be turned over to the public as a kind of collateral.  There has to be something in return for being loaned money - or perhaps a something in return for being given money.

And because its reasonable, it will never happen.

The nonsense proposed this round is just that.  Don't be surprised to see another hand in your wallet soon...

And another thing got me to thinking: H Wayne may have turned out to be a so-so owner...but he was a good citizen in south Florida.  I heard Channing Crowder talking about this today.  H Wayne brought in baseball, and lived here, and wanted the best for the team.  And, more importantly he has been philanthropic throughout our area.  He has done some good.

Compare that with Stephen Ross.  He is "from Miami" but moved away when he went to college, and basically never returned, other than to do business.  He doesn't live here (he's a resident of NY), and he tried to buy a couple of other teams before getting the Dolphins.  Maybe he has a link to Miami, but I believe its about owning A team, rather than THIS team.

And if you check his philanthropy, sure he PLANS to give a sizable fortune to charity.  And that's nice.  But he isn't living that promise now.  And looking into his philanthropy, he has given heavily to his alma mater (Michigan), and to various entities in and around New York.  But has done nothing here.

And here's where this intersects: he wants to enrich himself, and expects tax payers to fund enhancements in the stadium.  And he's essentially giving nothing in return. And in fact, he's not giving anything back to the community at all.  So why should anyone support him?

How about showing some goodwill first?  How about showing that maybe you care in some way about the community that you don't live in? 

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I say we go the Baltimore route and let them move. And then Miami can spend nearly two decades begging for another team and once they find one, pay for a brand new stadium instead of paying for a little renovation!

There are no shortages of cities willing to foot the entire bill for a stadium.

Wonder why that is?

LA dolphins has a good ring to it


Don't forget that *the Dolphins* (and Mr. Ross) own the stadium outright - and has a $300+ million debt on the stadium.

Move? I rather think not. That's money owed; and there would be a myriad of lawsuits based on taxes and leases for the land under the stadium.


except that LA or the billionaire Ross would be more than willing to foot that 300 million dollar bill in return for a NFL franchise- not a big deal when you think about the 1 billion dollar stadium they would build for them. (see Ravens for details)


Oh, and ross sounds a heck of a lot like Irsey in 83 (WE ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE the colts are staying in baltimore!)


Fair enough. And if that's the case, I say good riddance.

I'll bring the moving boxes. Its not that I don't like the team - it IS that if that's what sport comes down to (pure greed) then I can find other ways to entertain myself.


I have been a dolphin fan since Shula left Baltimore for Miami and I live in the Baltimore area. So it is easier for me to see the dolphins leave than it would be for a Miami resident. But the thing is if they leave, Miami will regret it.

You have to ask yourself WHY, after all these years is LA willing to pay for a stadium after REFUSING to help the Rams and Raiders out?

LA is not doing this out of the goodness of their hear.


I think when you think about it, it will boil down to the 30 million dollar annual tax bill the dolphins pays, not sure what that would add up to over the life of a stadium but i am guessing LA believes its worth it.

Question would be how is Miami going to replace that revenue? Maybe add it on to hotel taxes?


You seem to forget that during the negotiation Mr. Ross offered part ownership of the stadium and Miami said they wanted no part in it. I truly don't understand you sir, then again perhaps you don't understand people like me who were okay with the deal. You really do 'bitch' about everything as far as the Dolphins are concerned...your name sake truly does fit.

You can Bitch and cry all you want to about 'corporate welfare' but the fact of the matter is, that this happens all the time. As far as deals go, you most likely wont find a better one that has been offered. I just don't understand why you whined and cried about this. Particularly in the end when the Dolphins were willing to drop the 90 million in tax breaks (from things bought only in the stadium).

So in reality all that was left on the deal was the 1 cent increase in the bed tax. Which no matter how much you cry, cannot be used for anything other than things to promote tourism, entertainment and the like. You can talk all you want about how Superbowl's don't bring in money like they say, but the fact of the matter is even if a Superbowl brings in 50 million. Mr. Ross guaranteed to get at least 4 Which in of itself pays for the tax increase.

Lets not forget all the other things that were guaranteed, that would have brought more money into the area such as college championship games as well as soccer tournaments. That's not including the fact that it would have been payed back after 30 years...I really just want to understand why you have such a fucking problem with this?


Its all in the rear view mirror now.


Its all in the rear view mirror now.


Bitching? Maybe. But in this case, I'm presenting the other side, what some might think of as the minority view. You have all the talking points from the Dolphins covered. The problem is that most of this isn't true...

Yeah they "offered" a stake in the stadium, but when it came time to make an agreement, that wasn't in the discussion. They were "okay with" not getting the 90 million tax break - except that specific bill was added to the other bill in a backdoor deal (so it was never off the table, really). The 1 cent tax increase was a new tax - there was nothing that said an additional 1% had to be used for tourism, in fact the legislation increased the tax past the cap of 6%, AND allowed it to be used for tourism.

Yes, this type of welfare happens all the time. It just happened in Carolina, for the panthers. But that doesn't make it right, and doesn't mean I should simply accept it.

The stadium is still capable of holding events. Its a nice stadium, its just not as sleek and modern as some others, and geee, it doesn't have a roof. And the weather here is nice, so people and events will wind up here anyway.

I have a "f'in problem" with corporate shills and politicians telling us something is somehow good for us, in order to screw us. Simple as that.


There seems to be no rhyme or reason for what the bed tax can be used for. A quick google search will point that out. There is one County in the State that wants to use 1% of the bed tax to be used for life guards. State Legislators must decide if that is allowed under the guide lines. So when you say that 1% is to be used for tourism that means very little to local politicians.

Also you act as if the bed tax comes out of your pocket, and you know that is not true unless you stay in hotel where you live. So the bed tax is not "your" money, and it never was.

Your post comes off as a jealous rant on your part. Quite frankly I don't see any reason why the people of Dade County wouldn't be all for Stadium renovation. Regardless of what you think or say the Dolphins Stadium brings in jobs and revenue for the area. That alone should make a Tea Party member happy. Isn't that what you want, keep people off of the Entitlement Programs ? What better way to that with no cost to yourself ? It should be a dream come true.

Don't think for one second that the Dolphins wouldn't walk away from the Miami area if the grass is greener elsewhere. You are putting all of your chips in the middle of the table if you think that couldn't happen. Businessmen and Women walk away from a losing proposition every day. They will shutter a building and move elsewhere if it makes sense to them. We see this everyday in Florida. Don't fool yourself thinking the Dolphins wouldn't do the same thing. Don't assume anything, Ross didn't make 4 Billion Dollars by being stupid.


Just to clarify: it was pitched as money from the bed tax would be given to the dolphins each year, and therefore there's no money coming out of our pockets. But this a little disingenuous. And that's because the county was going procure a loan to give the dolphins ALL the money up front, then use the money to *pay back* the loan.

And at the end, Ross would "pay back" the principle, with no interest.

So while it would have been $200 million or so in money to the fins, the interest would have been about the same amount. The bed tax and Ross' repayment probably would have paid off about $300 million total, leaving the locals on the hook for the remainder, or around $100 million.

No cost to locals? Ummm, survey says.....xxxxxxx

Now to be fair, I don't live in Dade. But there's some amount of what happens in one county affects another, so there is an indirect impact.

Now as to me having a jealous rant, I'd say no. I'm not particularly jealous. He got rich in real estate, and good for him. He sees a chance to own a team, and make a buck, and that's great.

But he - well and really the NFL - has driven away some of the longer tenured fans such as me. I don't much care if they stay or if they go. I also don't care if they get another superbowl. The big game impacts me not at all - I get no benefit direct or indirect from it. All it does is create traffic headaches, and take away some of the things I might otherwise do - because areas are closed for private parties.